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No problem with Uncle Dec here - obviously he's coaching for a certain aim - to be big in the charts, and really most people understand the deal they have to work there.

As for the people here who aren't 'selling out'. Great, thats their choice. If you are doing this because you love it and you can still get by, and are happy thats great.

We're not all about the chart success, I know I certainly aren't.

Mr.Will

Planet Sound Community Arts Aiming to provide the means for EVERYONE to be creative

Dec has tried to peddle his get rich quick brand of huckerstism in this newsgroup with little apparent success because the people here wouldn't let him. Anything he posted, even if it was as simple as 'change your guitar strings', he pronounced as a 'great secret'. When challenged on the approach, his excuse is 'all my mates talk that way'. I can just hear a 15 year old taking that same approach with a parent....'but mom, all my friends are doing it'.

Yes, Dec was part of the Bachelors, a group that had two big hit records in 1964 and 1965('Diane' and 'Marie' and that's to be respected. But it seems as if everything he's done since then has been riding on that long ago success and, from what I hear, being a part time herbal life salesman. Nobody ever has seemed to have heard of any of the albums Dec claims to have produced since then.

I think I would amend this to say that he believes every songwriter SHOULD be in it for the money...this is where many songwriters in the newsgroup part ways with him. Some people believe that songwriting is somehow synonymous with business, which of course it isn't unless you choose it to be. To belittle those who simply write for pleasure is plain silly. I have nothing against Dec, only his choice of words.

I'll agree with you here, and say this whole idea of 'selling out' is really equated with 'giving up on what YOU want to achieve'. The idea that those who are successful, eg the destiny child, the Oasis type groups have somehow SOLD OUT is really not helpful because perhaps what THEY wanted (stadium rock, lots of ££) is not the same as what any other individuals might want.

For instance, a new market for 'proper' jazz records? Virtuoso guitar playing? Not exactly ever going to fill stadiums or get huge airplay, but if you want to go down that path, then thats exactly where you should go. Orchestras, classical music - big money market?

You only SELL OUT if you GIVE UP what you are trying to achieve.

Thats probably where Dec is a little presumtuous and quite worng in labelling people as losers who pat each other on the backs on this newsgroup.

I don't see that we all have to be in it for Dec's reasons any more than we have to be in it because of the classical lute players reasons.

I will say one thing though - Dec does seem to have these letters filled with advertising and promo schemes. Nothing wrong with that, but someone saying he is my friend giving me advice, then really telling me some obvious stuff in the midst of a ream of promo isn't what I feel comfortable referring to as genuine.

Mr.Will

Jazz guitar and great photos

Yes, you have summed up my opinion in a far better way than I could. Dammit!

Mr.Will

Jazz guitar and great photos

I think the thing that sort of irritated e about Dec's arrogant rude commets on 'selling out' had less to do w/ a person's decision to self-produce themselves ( insuring that they owned the masters they paid for and had creative control, the latter being the biggest bone of contention here in Hollywood among artists I know ) and more to do w/ the idea that a person has to 'sell out' and write pop hits rather than the music that is in their heart. It is true that there are some folks who can churn out pop hits by the dozen. There are also those who don't. I am sure that Diane Warren loves the songs she writes and gets a great deal of enjoyment from writing them. However, this doesn't mean that we should all be Diane Warren clones ( heaven forbid! ). Cid

My Sites Links Page: http://community-2.webtv.net/Cynthiangel/Cidzsites/ My Guestbook: http://cidsworld.cjb.net/

'You only SELL OUT iff you GIVE UP what you are trying to achieve.' Thank you, Wll. That's says it all.

Cid

My Sites Links Page: http://community-2.webtv.net/Cynthiangel/Cidzsites/ My Guestbook: http://cidsworld.cjb.net/

I've read that either George Martin or Brian Epstien helped The Beatles with their image. Would that be selling out?

Ebeneezer Pockawockadopolis

Re your 'Beatles'....did they sell out?

What guys don't realise today is that 'The Beatles' were probably the first of the 'designed' bands. Before then, it was mostly 'choir' type outfits that were 'designed'...'Francis Langford Singers' and then loads of 'folk' type vocal outfits.

Brian Epstein was a close pal in those days...in fact we drove him home and probably were the last ones to see him alive on the fateful night he was found dead. [conspiracy? It has never been investigated!]

Pete Best was removed from the band and Ringo substituted [who really played drums on the records? Wanna know?]

Brian's family were huge in Liverpool and controlled the record distribution to an enormous degree. They could manipulate the charts easily. 'Selling Out?' I don't think so.

The guys just knew where success was, and knew what to do to achieve it.

By the way...I lived then at 54 Boston Place...The Beatles had their studio in Boston Place....you never hear that mentioned! Strange! I used to see the guys all the time, and the musicians lolling about. We shared the same solicitor, Bernard Sheridan...now the boss of 'Sheridan' the biggest London show biz. lawyer firm. Our personal guy there was Tony Dimitriades, who went to The States and managed 'Yes'. Small world.

By the way, my band outsold Beatles in 1965...little known fact....check out the NME poll concert at Wembley of that year...

Regards...

PS: If Paul MacCartney was shot and John Lennon played one of his toons at the memorial concert in :Liverpool, would he have played 'The Frog Song'? [grin]

Ebeneezer Pockawockadopolis wrote in >>

Ture....of course....if the coach bragged as much as Dec does, you'd ask how his team did. And if you never heard about his team or he started doing the 'songshark mumble' the way Dec does when he doesn't want to answer anything, then you've had right to question him. Here in this newsgroup maybe a year ago, I asked about what he did. He claimed he had produced 59 albums. But when I checked his web, it mentioned 59 BACHELOR albums so I assume THAT'S what he referring to.

So does this mean you are PERSONALLY reccomending Dec's service? I've found that in the music business, people you can trust generally only reccomend stuff they KNOW works or they know is good. If they do otherwise, why trust them again.

Well, you'd at LEAST be putting your money where your mouth is...which you do NOT seem to be doing now,

Not in my opinion, what do you think? But then if the Beatles had committed to being master virtuoso musicians, then perhaps.

Mr.Will

Jazz guitar and great photos