Generating chords from melodies

I'm pretty much a non-musician, but that doesn't stop me writing loads of songs (melody + lyrics). Finding the chords that fit the melodies takes me forever though...

I've been reading all I can about Band In A Box & Jammer, but obviously they both seem to work from a chords basis. Can either be used the other way around, to generate the chords from a melody? I realise this can be a bit hit & miss, but being able to audition & select/reject possible chords would make all the difference, from my songs staying in my head to being recordable in demo form.

Which of these (or others) would be more suitable? Some of my songs are Sinatra swing-style, which i gather would favour BAIB, but others are indy rock or trance electronica style!

I have a midi keyboard & use Sonar for sequencing & recording other people's music (audio) & have soft-samplers & an old Roland JV 880 so I don't necessarily need more sound sources for basic demos.

Well, you could learn a little music theory for starters. It's not that hard, and it will help.

Search on Google for subjects like 'basic harmony' and so forth. Here are two sample 'educational' sites:
http://www.tonalityguide.com/
http://www.guitarnotes.com/wholenote/230-1.shtml

Which may or may not be very helpful to you, but learning some music theory will help you understand what key your melody is in, say, and what chords will work with that. The information is incomplete, (you'd probably be better served by a book on the subject) but there are many websites with basic information. Or you could find a musician who already knows theory, and collaborate, using your melodies.

Hi Karl BIAB can not be used to generate a chord sequence. The quickest way for you to get chords happening is to know what the next chord it is likely to be. To do this you need to learn how Harmony works. or Use chord maps, or use a circle of 5ths

Understand this concept there is more than one way to harmonize a particular tune for different color in the music different tones etc. Mr. Cox would for example harmonize the same melody as me in a different way than I would and has done so.

If you don't understand something or your sequencer doesn't have a function I mention then let us know and we can work around that.

We are talking major key here for a start.

(1) Determine the Key, open your melody in the score editor select the function determine key. The computer will then display the key the song is in. Usually the first and last note of your melody will be the key. (2) All songs can be harmonized with just three chords each key has there own three chords. These chords are called the principle chords. For this purpose you should use three note chords (triads) (3) These chords are based on the first fourth and fifth notes of the scale of the key your in. These chords are called The tonic (I) the Sub-dominant (IV) the dominant (V) (4) Your melody will usually start and end with the (I ) chord The tonic (5) You should avoid going from the dominant to the sub dominant V to IV (6) Now you can see if your song is in the key of C your chords are 1st 4th and 5th - CdeFGab Roman numerals I, IV, V C tonic F Sub-dominant G Dominant (7) So your song starts with a C chord which is followed by either an F or a G chord the G chord is always followed by the C chord so what are the possible permutations for the first three chords CGC CFG CFC so you see there is limited choice. (8) So with your melody going hold a C chord on a instrument such as organ or whatever when you hear a discord try a G if that sounds bad try F then hold this chord until you hear a discord and so on. What you will achieve is a very plain basic chord structure a bit boring yes but still a chord structure.

You will then have learned how to crawl the next step is to use secondary chords to enrich your harmonies in major keys, then to do the minors but you need to grasp the three chord harmony and you need to hear how notes of the chord sound comfortable and notes not of the chord which are not discordant sound restless because when you use secondary chords you need to understand how to add and release tension from you music.

If you wish to just get it happening without getting into the nitty griity

(A) Use chord maps

(1) Determine key (see method 1) (2) Use the chord map for that Key as per instructions with maps Here is a reference for the chord maps http://members.aol.com/chordmaps/chartmaps.htm The maps are down the bottom of this page, it may help you to work your way through the site from the first page the address for that is http://members.aol.com/chordmaps/index.htm (3) The chord map will give you a limited number of which chord can come next so you just try them all and use the one you like the sound of best. and so on.

( Use a circle of fifths harmonic clock

(1) Draw a circle At the position of 12 o'clock write C. Then progressing clock wise around the clock write at each hour the following. G D A E B Gb Db Ab Eb Bb F (2) Find the key (Home base) (3) Now jump forward or backwards to a chord that sounds good. *** Note from your home bass two three and four jumps forward would normally be minors So for example if your in C 2, 3 and 4 o'clock are minors (6) The chord sequence will then most times resolve back towards home base it may not stop at every hour on the way back it may jump one and then go back to it but the general direction will to be towards home base so you only have a choice of two or three chords that will come next and you will soon hear which one you like. If you play the next two chords towards home and they don't sound right try advancing one more hour forwards then resolve back to home base . The point is that at any time you have the choice of about three chords that can be next so trial and error and soon you will hear it and get better at it.

Anything that doesn't make sense do not hesitate to ask.

Cheers

I think you could do it with a keyboard and a little basic theory knowledge. A basic chord is made of three notes. The 1st the 3rd and the 5th. In otherwords the chord C would contain C E G. C being the bass (root) note. In alphabetical order they represent the 1st 3rd and 5th notes of the chord. Three notes on the keyboard. You just need to find the bass (root) note that falls on the beat of your song and create the chord from the root note. The chord also represents the mood of the song. The chord could be complex but let's use more basic info. Major (happy) or Minor (sad). To create a minor chord, you flatten the 3rd so C minor would be C Eb G. There is also a chord formula which you can use. We'll use C because C has no sharps or flats. To simplify we'll say the pattern is Major minor minor major major minor minor. So if the song is in C (C major) then the pattern would indicate that the chords which would sound in key with C major and follow the pattern would me C major, D minor, E minor, F major, G major, A minor, B minor. This pattern will work with all keys of songs but you have to remember that other song keys have sharps/flats so for instance if the song is in G which has an F#, then the major minor pattern would look like: G Am Bm C D Em F#m. I hope this helps.

The best way to learn music theory is by ear. I learned to begin with by just working out the chords to every song I heard. After a while I noticed some patterns emerging (can take time, but until this happens the theory doesn't work at an 'instinctive' level) Then when you start to think you know what's going on, that's when it's good to buy books and see how many differeny ways it can be developed. Also this will teach you the correct names for the ideas you're using.

It is a pretty unconventional method, but it ensures that the ideas you're using come 'from the heart' and aren't just a 'what might sound good?' guessing game.

I don't know of any really solid and reliable music theory books because it is, like I say, an instinctive process. The important thing is that whatever books you do buy (and they are all valuable in their way), learn how the different ideas *sound* don't just learn their names and how they appear on a manuscript. Hear them! It's only when you hear them that you truly know what they are. That's why I think it's best to go in 'Ears first' if you can.

Sorry if it's not been the help you wanted, but as regards books there's all kinds of different ones and all kinds of different theory. There's classical theories, jazz theories, rhythmic theories, melody theories, harmony theories and lyric theories. In fact, I've found stuff in Guitar magazines that's been almost as valuable as the Bach stuff. There's a brilliant analysis of Joe Satriani's 'Surfin with the Alien' on the front couple of pages of the transcription that I think might be the most insightful thing I've ever read (Although I'll have changed my mind by tomorrow) Once the ears can hear, the rest will drop into place. Ear training is the key to

This is better than a book as you can hear the examples. http://www.musictheory.net/

Cheers

Music Theory ultimately will help and parts of it are actually pretty easy to learn. For example half and full steps. Then Intervals. Then Chords. Then variations like suspensions, 6th chords. Then Chord progressions. You may find keys and scales a bit of a pain or challenge to learn at first. To start you could just stick to your favorite key and not have to worry about that for now. So lets say you like the Key of C which has no sharps/flats. If you were playing E for example there are 3 possible chords you could try right away. Each one has E in the chord. The first would be E chord (EG fyi this is minor. You could also play the chord C (CEG major) and you could also try A (ACE minor). All of them will work but 1 or 2 might sound better depending what the chord before or after is. This method may help you the majority of the time. But a lot of the time interesting melodys are ones that play notes that are not in the chord. Usually a good melody may play notes of the chord about half the time to establish the chord and the other half the time play other notes to create interest. For example if your melody is fast and you don't want to change Chords- let's say you play E F G in succession. There is no triad that has all 3 of these. But E and G are part of 2 Chords- E (EG and C (CEG). The F would be the off chord note that creates interest. This method will get you started but may lead to simple or basic sounding stuff. As you get better you will experiment and find other interesting things to try. I would suggest playing around with chord progressions to get familiar with them. Play every chord in the key of C. Then play them in different progressions. A common one is C F G. Often with 3-chord progressions you double the length of one chord like C, C, F, G or C, F, G, G, and repeat. Also try C A F G for 60's style. Try D C G. Try D F C. And so on. You will soon like certain ones and could try playing melody on top.

People have written very good answers in this thread, save those texts and read them many times in the future.

I learned a lot about music a few years ago, and wrote a text to explain things to myself. It is written in a very compact style, and probably far too advanced for a beginner, but it contains a lot of useful knowledge. It is most directed at guitar players but should be useful for others too.

Music Theory

This is very advanced theory expressed as simple as possible. I have tried to find the easiest possible approach and remove everything which was not necessary. Read only the easy parts to begin with.

Harmony and rythm are the two basic areas of music, where order and disorder harmonize in an eternal dance of patterns and chaos.

1: Harmony (the guitarists left hand)

As a beginner you should learn some simple chords and play around with the basic major scale. Play along with the radio or cd-player and try all tones until you find tones which sound good. (play very fast and try all tones) Learn to find what major scale fits at the moment. You don't have to worry about minor scales, because every minor scale is identical to a major scale in another key. Somewhere on the fretboard there is a major scale which fits every moment in every song you hear on the radio. If you're fast enough you'll find it

I have done that for a year now on my guitar. I call it 'mindless bulk training'. It has given me fingerspeed and I have discovered 'safe tones', (which I later found out forms the pentatonical scale).

Now I need more theory to learn more advanced playing, so I put together this textfile from different sources. This will be my guide for further development.

There are lots of tab-files and midifiles on internet which are very helpful, if you can use them in a sequenser.

Chords and Scales Programs are easy to find for your PC-computer. get the 'super guitar chord finder' from: http://leden.tref.nl/cdvisser nutcho32.exe hendrixd.exe are also nice.

But you need some musical theory to use those Scales. This text is that theory in very condensed form.

The most usual scales and suitable chords:

(Chords and scales are here written in C, but can of course be transposed to any key)

C D E F G A H 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Basic C-major scale, to be played over C C7 or C5 chord. (C5=power chord=first and fifth tone in major scale, no third) Happy bright sound. Musical Styles: Rock, Country, Jazz, Fusion Chords: Major, Major Sevenths, Major Ninths, Elevenths

1 2 3 5 6 Major pentatonic, to be played over C, C5 ,country, country rock

1 b3 4 5 b7 Minor pentatonic Scale, over Cm Cm7 C5, Rock Hendrix Clapton Description: A Bluesy sounding scale Musical Styles: Blues, Rock, Heavy Metal, Jazz, Fusion Chords: Minor, Minor Sevenths, Dominant Seventh

1 b3 4 b5 5 b7 Blues scale, over Cm Cm7 C5, Blues The Blues Scale is derived from the Minor Pentatonic Scale. It has an added #4th (=b5). This note gives the scale a bluesy feel. Apart from that one note it is the Minor Pentatonic Scale

1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 Lydian over C C7 C5, Jazz, Fusion, Rock, Country,Joe Satriani, Steve Vai This is the major scale with a sharp 4th note (trick: play C-major scale over F F7 F5, to get lydian scale in F)

1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 Mixolydian over C C7 C5, Bluesy sound, Rock-n-Roll This is the major scale with a flat 7th note Musical Styles: Blues, Country, Rockabilly, and Rock (trick: play Cmajor scale over G G7 G5)

1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 Dorian over Cm Cm7 C5, Blues, Carlos Santana Jazz, Fusion, Blues, and Rock (trick: play C-scale over Dm Dm7 D5)

1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 Natural Minor (=relative minor)= Aeolian. Aeolian over Cm Cm7 C5, Rock, Heavy Metal Pop, Blues, Rock, Heavy Metal, Country, Fusion (trick: play C-scale over Am Am7 A5)(=Natural Minor)

Less usual Scales:

1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 Strange and eerie sound. Phrygian over Cm Cm7 C5, Yngwie Malmsteen, Al di Meola Spanish Flavor Flamenco, Fusion, Speed Metal (trick: play C-scale over Em Em7 E5)

1 2 b3 4 5 b6 7 Harmonic Minor, over Cm C5, Evil sound, Yngwie Malmsteen

1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7 Locrian over Cm7b5 or diminished triad, Sounds Sinister. Jazz, Fusion (trick: play C-scale over Bm7b5-chord)

1 2 b3 4 5 6 7 Melodic Minor over Cm C5 (ascend with Melodic Minor and descend with Natural Minor (Aeolian)

1 2 b3 4 b5 b6 6 7 (yes, eight tones) Diminished Scale, over B B7 Cdim, Eerie sound

1 b2 b3 3 4 5 b6 b7 Flamenco This is Phrygian with added 3. Chords Cm C5 ?

Interesting, but I'd definitely suggest trying a demo or something before investing any money in such a program, as I really can't see something like this working very well. There's just too many possible harmonies for any given note to expect that it will come anywhere near the specific chord progression one has in mind, even if one was writing 3-chord rock, which of course, is not the case for the OP.

: takes me forever though...

Maybe try an autoharp.