I hear cool stuff .. what Id like to read ..

.. is how you made it.

In particular, how you arranged the song, how you orchestrated it. How you took the original idea in your dream that night and started working it into a finished product.

I know that any song-creator is somewhat limited by the technology available to that person .. to the money and so-on .. but I also know that there is a helluva lot of /craft/ to it, and that the results of some of that craft are extremely subtle. I'd love to read where people dissect what they have done and point out the brushstrokes in the work.

When you provide some feedback or criticism on one of the songs you hear from this group, ask the writer to provide you with some information on how the song came about and got recorded. Most of us will be happy to comply.

Jay Seeley

I agree with you. It could be one of the most fascinating topics on a board like this.

At the same time, I think many people who create don't want to 're-live' the process of creating something, including the crafting part.

For a lot of us, it's more fun to work on something new than do a post-mortem on something we've done. There's only just so much time in a day, and I know I would personally rather spend it working on something new, even if it's reading and giving feedback on someone else's work, than re-hash something I wrote a while back. I think a lot of songwriters I've met feel the same way.

I've found that you can often get inside the crafting process of someone else just by asking for critique on your own work. The way they approach the music, the questions they ask, and the suggestions they make are often reveal the way that they craft their own songs. It also points out the choices they make that might be different from the choices you would make.

You might want to try it from that angle. Just a thought.

Working with hard disk recording doing a bit here and a bit there some things just happen and you can't remember always what you did like you are jumping from sub mixing to arranging to writing and back again which I don't think your supposed to do, but I do, sometimes you end up with verse one sounding different than verse two Although there are something's I write down when I do them and keep a file of them a bit disorganized but OK for me to reference.

Cheers

I'm sure that's true, James, but nonetheless I would _love_ to see some cases where a writer, having built up a song, now takes it apart and lays it down on the floor in pieces.

Each time that I listen to a professional recording, I notice that the song line itself is sometimes very simple, but the treatment that is then applied to the song is what really makes it come alive. This is what I particularly enjoy about the Christmas season: the /songs/ are the same, but the /treatment/ of those songs is endlessly varied.

{And yes, some of those chestnuts are just as horrible as ever, although I guess I wouldn't mind a piece of the royalties from any of them.}

Personally, it was a surprise to me how little brush stoke there was in a work, other than the work itself. I mean there are a lot of different takes, but editorial decisions in my head are made with little forethought or after thought. It probably shows. I wish it was otherwise. I wish there were great stories to go with the songs. But as I see it, there's 95% song and 5% story. Another of the personal confessions of Tim/gmab.

So would I, so would I. :^) And I'll be very happy if it happens.

I'm a paper-pencil (err, Finale) composer. Most of the pop music I've done - so far - has been complicated enough to justify writing out a full-blown score. Even without a complicated arrangement, I'll at least write a lead sheet. Am I the only one round here?

That's the funny thing about the word 'write'. I know its perfectly acceptable usage to call oneself a songwriter when one doesn't really write, but having gone through years of study and development in the craft of composition, I get kind of picky (and maybe arrogant) about the discipline of composing on the staff. There simply is no other way to so precisely lay out ones ideas. And aside from that, the ability to actually write songs and use notation properly requires that the composer gain a strong, fundamental grasp of musical theory and compositional practices - a pretty useful thing.

[sound of me shutting my dusty tome and stepping off the podium]

Best, -Ben Sommer

««·´¯º·¸

Sorry, I worded this incorrectly...

Read this: : Almost everything I compose is done with sequencer : software.

Skip this: : But I still write some songs totally on guitar : or piano. It depends on what I want to create.

And read this: : All the : symphonic electronica I write has to be done that way, : I don't know any other way to do it.

I was referring to using sequencer software, not the piano. But then I inserted the sentence about the guitar and piano. Whoops!

Me too Ray boy. Btw where are you from again? (spoken in a Father Dougal lilt)