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bglose
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Posted 3 Years, 6 Months ago #1
The following question seems fairly obvious to me and should be answered even in basic reference works; but nevertheless, after some basic research (admittedly a bit superficial), I am still at a loss:

Which was the first opera to use neither spoken dialogue nor continuo recitatives; i.e. the first opera to use orchestral accompaniment all the time? (I am not sure about the correct English term -'composed through'?)

The earliest German expamples I have read about date from around 1813/15 (by a today completely forgotten Bavarian composer called Johann Nepomuk von Poissl); but of course someone in Italy or France might have had the idea some years earlier.

Any ideas?
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dg8200
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Posted 3 Years, 6 Months ago #2
'Through composed' [durchcomponiert]. But I'm not sure if this is what you mean. A 'through composed' opera is not divided into numbers, and there is indeed an orchestral accompaniment all the time. On the other hand, the operas I mention below have only orchestral accompaniment - no spoken dialogues or recitativi secchi -, but are divided into numbers, and therefore are not through composed.

French Baroque opera used accompanied recitatives which are very different from secco recitatives with harpsichord alone and also from the Italian recitativi accompagnati. Neither spoken dialogues nor secchi were used.

In the German tradition, I'm pretty sure that the operas from 1770s, the first really serious operas written to German texts - such as Holzbauer's 'Guenther von Schwarzburg' or Schweitzer's 'Alceste' and 'Rosemunde' had neither spoken dialogues nor secchi - but a lot of accompagnati. Again, they were divided into numbers.

Through composed operas are later; it seems that one of the earliest was 'Iphigenie in Aulis' by Franz Ignaz Danzi (1763-1826), premiered in Munich in 1807, but I can't really confirm that. Poissl's through composed operas were supposedly influenced by Danzi's.

Italian composers wrote 'number operas' until well into the 19th C, when through composed operas were preferred in other countries.
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wordshop
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Posted 3 Years, 6 Months ago #3
I suppose there are various shades of transition between operas that use only orchestral accompaniment, but still are put together of clearly distinguishable indivisual numbers and those operas that are 'through composed' in the strict sense of the term, i.e., individual numbers are no longer recognizable.

If the term 'through composed' is applied *very* strictly, I wonder if there would be all that many operas meeting that standard; even Wagner's 'Goetterdaemmerung' contains pieces I wouldn't hesitate to call 'numbers' (Hagen's 'Ich sitz zur Wacht' at the end of Act I, e.g.); even late Verdi is full of 'numbers' - Desdemona's Ave Maria and willow song, however well integrated into the structure, can easily be seperated from their context and still are satisfactory entities. Come to think of it, I might find it even difficult to explain why, say, a long stretch of monologue or dialogue in mature Wagner is not a sort of 'number', too, especially if it is structured by the repetition of certain phrases.Weber's 'Euryanthe', to be sure, couldn't be properly called 'through composed', if you were strict in the above sense. Altogether, it seems to be a tricky question; and it might be a worthwhile topic to explore how boundaries between numbers gradually get blurred.

Available on cpo at bargain price, haven't got it yet, but have been tempted for some time.

It might still be interesting when Rossini wrote his first opera without secchi - 'Tancredi' has still got them, but maybe 'Otello'?

What about Gluck, by the way? Haven't come across him for ages and am thus not sure.
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