writing songs and/or arrangements?

Hi, I've been checking out this site for a while now,some really great discussions. Regarding some of the posts on chord structure, arranging etc, I started writing songs after listening to Dylan, Jackson Browne, Costello and others. Been writing for a while now and have never really focused on recording/arranging. I use a basic 4 track tape machine, and record the songs mainly so as I can hear how they sound before playing them to an audience. I got a friend who writes not only the melody/lyric but then the bass line, drum parts etc spends hours recording them, gives the disc to his band members and basically says 'play this' Whereas in the band I play with, once everyone gets the changes the song can go anyplace, one night we might play it acoustic based, the next electric , sometimes with piano etc. To those of you who play your songs with a band, do you write both the song and arrangement, or do you leave it up to the other players?

Hi,

We use a more or less traditional approach to it. I give lead sheets to the guys I play with regularly, and we play the tune for awhile (say, a week or two, if it sounds like 'something's real' about it). As elements for re-writing become clear, I will then do that myself. Then, repeat process.

Most of what I am doing leans more to older standards/jazz type music and lyrics, so it's okay to do it this way. I think a part of that comes from approaching each tune as a singer as well as player, and often the 'arrangements' seem to evolve into the final product. By this I mean it's not as much like more contemporary music, where a total 'sound concept' is more what you might be after.

One of the other reasons I like writing this way is that the folks I work with tend to be pretty astute and creative. While they might not be 'composers' per se, the fact is that listening to the things *they* do with my tune helps *me* with the concept. I can better hear what I'm really thinking if they are playing, too.

Hope this is helpful, Tony in FL

No band, but I frequently get joiners-in even when they have never heard a song before. Most of regulars are experienced pub and traditional session musicians and only need to hear the first verse to move in. Sometimes I've been able to shout 'solo' to a fiddle player and get a complete verse solo from something they've never played before.

I can do much the same myself - after playing an elaborate and well detailed guitar duet with another guy to back someone's flute tune, we asked what the tune was - she had made it up on the spot! If you know the language (in our case, Scots and Irish music generally) then you can often work this way.

Must be impossible with some tunes and songs, but then, people recognise that sort of material and don't try to join in.

I used to be in a band but I left because our music got far too busy - everyone was competing to dominate the songs. As a result I now do whatever I need done to my songs myself, or if I can't do it, I get someone in for a particular song. Leaving it up to the other players is something I would recommend only if the other players all like and trust each other well and are very compentent and sensitive composers - that is sensitive to the message your song communicates. The alternative is to pay the musicians you work with. They'll do what you want then. Managing to get a small group of people to agree in detail on the objectives of a song and the best means to accomplish that is a very difficult thing.

I play irregularly with a band, and about 60-70% of the material is mine, the rest being by other members, or the odd cover. We have a working agreement whereby everyone is welcome to have an input on a song's arrangement, but at the end of the day, it is the song's author who has the final say, with no argument allowed.

This puts the author in a strong position. He can open his mind to other's ideas, knowing that he is still in control of his own material.

It works well - obviously I benefit the most, but because everyone in the band has written something, we all get a chance to be the boss. There is only one song I can remember, where some of the band simply hated my arrangement of one of my songs, and I was not prepared to go their way. We settled by agreeing to differ, and dropping the song from the set - and this was sorted without anyone getting upset or bent out of shape.

However, this method only really works with self-confident, assertive people. <g>